Chapter 18
CASE HISTORY
Subject: Eighteen-year-old female. Negro, a college freshman, case name, Karen
Q. Do you date men?
A. Rarely.
Q. Why is this?
A. I don't like them. I really never have.
Q. But you date them sometimes. If you do not like them, why do you sometimes go out with them?
A. There are some activities on campus that nearly demand that you have a male date. Some of these events I like to go to, so I get a date.
Q. If it weren't for this, you would not have much to do with men, is that right?
A. Absolutely right.
Q. Do you consider yourself a lesbian?
A. I do.
Q. Are you certain?
A. Very certain.
Q. Why?
A. It's rather obvious, I think. I like girls.
Q. Many girl like other girls without being lesbians. What makes you make a stronger interpretation of this kind of situation?
A. I'm afraid Dr.-, that you're trying to convince me, or at least make me have some doubt, as to the exact emotions I have for other girls.
Q. Now you're confusing me.
A. I think what you're attempting to do is establish that I don't know what a lesbian is—that I don't know what I am.
Q. Well, what is a lesbian? And what are you?
A. A lesbian prefers to have her sexual affairs with other girls rather than men. I'm that kind of a girl, so I'm a lesbian.
Q. There are different kinds of lesbians. What kind are you?
A. I beg your pardon.
Q. Do you play an active or passive role in the act?
A. Both.
Q. Have you ever had sexual relations with the opposite sex?
A. Yes.
Q. Frequently?
A. No.
Q. Will you tell me at what age this occurred and the circumstances surrounding the affair?
A. Yes, I'll tell you.
Q. Thank you.
A. I was twelve years old. My uncle—he lived with my mother and me—made love to me. He was almost like a father to me. Funny thing, though, this very second—right while I've been talking to you—I had a kind of flashing thought about him.
Q. What kind of thought?
A. That this man wasn't my uncle. I remember that he used to sleep with my mother lots of times. He was—I don't know if he was—supposed to be my father's brother. My father ran away when I was very small. Then I remember this man living with us.
Q. And he forced you into a sexual act?
A. I don't know if we can call if force, or not. It just kind of happened. You know, was happening without me really knowing how it came about.
Q. This man who you thought was, or was, your uncle, had sexual intercourse with you, is that the way it went?
A. That's part of it.
Q. What's the rest of the story?
A. Well, pretty soon he didn't seem satisfied with intercourse anymore. Now you have to understand that this man and I—well, we got together practically every time we were alone in the house together. But pretty soon he started doing something else.
Q. And what was that?
A. I don't know the medical terms for it, but he started just—just making to me with his mouth.
Q. At the vaginal area?
A. Yes.
Q. How did you feel about this?
A. I ... liked it.
Q. And had you liked sexual intercourse too?
A. Not at all. It used to hurt, and my uncle wasn't very gentle. When he wanted me, he wasn't very gentle. When he wanted me, he wanted me right then, with no fooling around. And he was a very big man, and sometimes I cried, the pain was bad.
Q. This is a little difficult to understand, Karen. Here we have your uncle, or at least a man, who apparently enjoyed having sexual intercourse with you when you were only twelve. But then his pattern changed and he merely gave his cunnilingual attentions to you.
A. Is that what it's called? Cunni ...
Q. Cunnilingus is the term that is used to explain oral love upon a woman—the mouthing or licking or tonguing of the genitalia.
A. Oh.
Q. What's wrong?
A. I guess I'm a little embarrassed. Hearing it explained in cold terms like that makes me feel a little funny.
Q. I see. Well, back to the alleged uncle. Tell me, when he ceased intercourse and confined himself to cunnilingus, did he have a reaction to the act? Did he experience a climax?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Did you?
A. Yes.
Q. But you did not have an orgasm from the act of intercourse?
A. No.
Q. Did you and your uncle continue as lovers over a very long period?
A. Yes. And let me say this. About what we were just discussing—my uncle switching his technique, so to speak. I think I know the reason for it.
Q. Tell me about it, Karen.
A. Well, I don't think that he ever intended that—that cunnilingus should be the entire act, that he should be doing that for me without getting anything out of it himself. But, you see, I could never—never—stay very long. Sometimes he would just start caressing me there and I'd—have a climax. And then I'd be through. I couldn't bear to be touched then, not to have anything done to me and not for me to do anything, either. My uncle always looked very disgusted, but I remember that he was known to be a patient man in other respects. And besides, he started to do some other things while he was doing that to me. You know, shift his weight around and change his position so that he'd be stretched out with his thighs and his—with all of him by my face. And I know he wanted me to—to—love him that way. Orally.
Q. Did you ever do this?
A. Just once. I hated it. But I didn't get very far, for my mother came upon us and went into a fury. After the uncle went scooting, my mother beat the daylights out of me, and all the time she kept saying how men were dirty and that at least I was lucky that my uncle hadn't put that 'thing' inside me, because then I'd be going crazy and winding up in a mental hospital for the rest of my life. My mother didn't know that we had practiced intercourse. I didn't tell her. I was just scared to death. For years and years. And I guess I still am.
Q. And that was your last experience with a man?
A. First and last.
Q. And then you went to women, or girls?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there any experience of your life—your rather young life—that indicates to you the reason for your lesbianism?
A. Certainly. I'm sure that all this business with my uncle made me afraid of men—all men, especially the sexuality of them. As an example, I think I still am, for in the classes where there is a man professor, I do poorly, but when I have a woman instructor, I do exceptionally well in my work. And I think there's another reason for it, too. I'm a Negro. Being a Negro is not like anything else in the world. In spite of civil rights and everything else, being colored is very different than you, or any white person, can imagine. I think this affects our sex life—some of us anyway—because I remember always thinking of the world as white, and me as dirty black. And I remember the stories my mother used to tell about the South, how white men raped colored girls and everything. I think that some place along the line of growing up, I got feeling that man was white—all men—and that the worst thing that could happen would be for his—his ... penis to enter a girl. To enter me. And so I think I was diverted away from men and toward women at a very early age.
Q. How do you account for the fact that your uncle—your first sexual partner—was colored. By the way, he was, wasn't he?
A. Yes, he was colored. And I account for it this way: My uncle, any black man, was really white as far as my subconscious went. Because he was a man, he was really white—male and white together, don't you see? So it didn't matter how he looked on the outside. That could be a disguise or something to my girlish mind. But to me, male and white were the same horrible thing, and I just could not ever have anything to do with them.
Q. Are white girls sometimes your lovers?
A. I'm going with a white girl now.
Q. And you've gone with other white girls? In what ratio, please, to colored girls?
A. I prefer white girls. I go with them most of the time. I've only been involved with a couple of Negro girls, and it wasn't very satisfactory. But do you see my reasoning? Am I right in these conclusions I have come to?
Q. I think there are areas where you are somewhat correct, but I also think that there is a great deal here that is not touched in such an interview as this one.
A. You mean that because I'm a lesbian, I should have a psychoanalysis?
Q. Not necessarily. But, if you are dissatisfied with your life, if you failed to function well, well then, it might be indicated. What do you think about it?
A. I don't know. Sometimes I'm pretty unhappy.
Q. Well, at least you know that should you want an interview or even treatment, it is available to you here at the university by merely seeing your counselor and arranging an interview with a qualified therapist.
A. I'd probably get just a caseworker—some hammy character who doesn't have it to make it all the way as a psychologist or psychiatrist.
Q. Oh, no, I don't think so. I'm sure a well-qualified therapist would be made available to you. And there's something else, too, Karen, that I'm going to take the liberty of mentioning although it has little to do with the purpose of this interview.
A. What's that, Doctor?
Q. Consider this. You volunteered for this study. I'm sure there's a reason that you don't recognize. I'm sure you submitted to this interview—to a psychiatric interview—because you wanted this lesbianism—this distortion—of yourself to be presented to a therapist, in this instance, myself, and I think that you subconsciously wanted this because you had hoped that you might resolve your problems by this single interview. So, you see, I think you really do want help.
A. It's possible. It makes a little sense, I guess. But I'll have to wait and see.
Q. Yes, do that, Karen, then when you're ready, go ahead and make the arrangements for treatment.
A. I might do that.
Q. I hope you do. And thank you very much for your contribution to this study. We all appreciate it.
A. Thank you.
CASE HISTORY
Subject: Nineteen-year-old sophomore, white, case name, Denise.
Q. You are a very pretty young lady, Denise. And I understand from the pre interview of this study that you are very popular with the male students on campus.
A. Well, thank you for the compliments, but I don't think it's as strong as you have put it. But thank you anyway.
Q. Do you like to be flattered?
A. Any girl does. Dr.-, I can just tell that you're working up to something else.
Q. You're quite right, Denise.
A. Then why don't you just go ahead and proceed with the interview for this study.
Q. Right. Denise, are you a lesbian?
A. Not actually.
Q. What do you mean by that remark?
A. That I have had affairs with girls.
Q. Are you bisexual?
A. I guess you could call it that. I've also had sexual relations with boys.
Q. Do you have a preference?
A. Yes, I like girls best.
Q. Why?
A. Oh, I've never considered it too much, but I guess you could say I'm happier with them.
Q. Do you perhaps mean more sexually comfortable with girls?
A. Maybe. But as I said. I've never considered it very much.
Q. Is there perhaps an element of sexual gratification here? That is, do you receive a greater thrill from sexual relations with girls than you do with boys?
A. That seems pretty right.
Q. Do you experience an orgasm with both males and females?
A. Sometimes.
Q. Is there a greater intensity when your climax is achieved with a girl rather than with a boy?
A. It depends upon the other person. You know, I really can't understand it myself. Sometimes I wish I could.
Q. Then this dilemma is upsetting for you isn't it?
A. A little. There are times when I wonder how this would affect my future, and I even get wondering if perhaps the security of marriage might straighten things out for me. One girl I knew and went with for almost a year finally got married and she never considered having another lesbian affair. Maybe it will turn out like that for me, too.
Q. Maybe. But tell me, when you already admit that you prefer females to males, why do you even bother with boys?
A. I don't like to think of myself as totally queer! I'm not that much of a rebel.
Q. Then you believe in some of the principles of the society in which you live?
A. I believe in many of society's rules.
Q. But you will violate them in secret, while on the surface you appear as an average—above average—college co-ed, is that right?
A. If you say it is, Dr. -. But frankly, I'm not going to worry about these things or try to analyze them until I get older.
CASE HISTORY
Subject: Eighteen-year-old female, white, college freshman, case name, Elizabeth, daughter of a professional man.
It was suggested by one of the study commission members that a bit of background regarding this subject would be helpful for a better understanding of the transcribed material.
Elizabeth is the gifted daughter of exceptional parents. Her father is a research sociologist at a renowned college. Elizabeth's mother is a concert pianist who has played the major symphonic engagements of the nation. Elizabeth, too, is a gifted musician, excelling at piano, violin, and the harp.
Elizabeth's environment, from the moment of her birth, was culturally and intellectually centered. Her scholastic testing scores during her secondary education, denoted a near-genius level. And, contrary to the usual testing achievement results, Elizabeth was shown to vary no more than .00039% between subjects tested. Elizabeth did equally well in physics, chemistry, trigonometry, English literature, American literature and the Romance languages. Elizabeth was also pretty, popular, accepted by peers and adults alike, served as school cheerleader, editor of the Yearbook, president of the National Honor Society, and held office in more clubs than any one student in her school's history.
Q. Well, Elizabeth, I am delighted that you volunteered for this interview. Do you know the purpose of it?
A. Yes, sir. I've already been interviewed once, you know.
Q. That was the pre interview. It was to establish your willingness to cooperate and other things.
A. This is supposed to be something like a new Kinsey Report, isn't it?
Q. Not exactly. We're trying to establish sexual patterns of female college students.
A. But can any kind of pattern really be established by interviewing the students of just one college? These things vary, I'd say, from one climate to another, the type of school, its prestige and the students who are attracted to it. Isn't that right?
Q. Of course. But we're making a beginning and will in fact unite our studies with those that are going to be made at other schools.
A Oh, I see. That's very interesting.
Q. Yes. And now to the interview.
A. I'm ready. I'll try to answer all your questions as honestly as I know how.
Q. Fine. Elizabeth, you're only eighteen, which is young but not necessarily a sexually unsophisticated age. So tell me, do you consider yourself sexually sophisticated?
A Do you mean do I consider myself knowledgeable about sex—about all elements of it?
Q. Yes.
A. I would answer yes to that.
Q. Have you, or do you, have sexual relations?
A. I have had, but presently I am not involved in a love affair.
Q. Why?
A. I'm trying to figure a few things out for myself. I've broken off with my lover—it was my idea. This way I can investigate my true feelings about love and sex and everything.
Q. It's unusual to find a girl as introspective as you are about sex and love. Is there a reason for this?
A. No doubt. Of course I've always been pretty intense about my feelings. I like to know why I do the things I do, whether they're good or bad. But there's another reason: My love affair has not been very conventional.
Q. Then it was unconventional?
A. Yes. You see, my lover for the past six months has been another girl. She's—well, she's a complete lesbian. She's also very charming and sweet and considerate. When I told her I was breaking off in order to think things over, she didn't raise a single objection, although I know she wanted to. And if she had, truthfully, I don't think I could have resisted her arguments. Not any of them. You see, it's quite possible that I'm in love with her—in love with her just as strongly as some girls fall in love with boys. And I have to think about it, figure it all out.
Q. Is this your first lesbian affair?
A Yes.
Q. Have you had sexual affairs with boys?
A. Not intercourse. I've petted with them, of course.
Q. Did you like it? Find it at all gratifying?
A. Yes, right up until the time when they started to get serious—started to force me into having intercourse; then I'd get frightened and not like any of it anymore.
Q. Then you are still a virgin, right?
A. In respect to men, yes.
Q. Do you mean that you consider yourself not a virgin because of your lesbian experiences? A. Yes. You see, to me, virginity means more than a displacement of the hymen. I look at it in terms of climax.
Q. You've experienced sexual climaxes with this girl?
A. Yes. Every time.
Q. You say that with a rather proud tone. Are you proud that you've experienced this?
A. Perhaps. I do know that many women—even women who have been married for years, happily married like my mother, never experienced an orgasm, so perhaps it is something to be proud of whether it comes from another woman or from a man.
Q. Would you say that your ability at achieving a climax with this girl is the strongest tie between you?
A. Undoubtedly. And of course, because of this, other things seem right too. We enjoy the same things, we're considerate of each other, things like that, and I think these things develop because we have shared such a harmonious sex life.
Q. But this same kind of harmony could be found in a heterosexual life, too, couldn't it?
A. I don't know. I've never had that experience.
Q. You mentioned that your mother has never known a sexual climax. How have you come upon this knowledge?
A. My mother told me. I suppose that seems odd. Maybe it is, but my parents are unusual. From the time I was a little girl, we've shared almost every thought. Mother was away a lot on tour, and my father always deeply involved in extra projects at the colleges where he taught, so when we were together, we talked about everything. And every question I asked was always answered. Q. Did you ask your mother if she achieved sexual climaxes.
A. No, not like that. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but I do remember asking her if there was some 'end' or 'result' from two people making love, and my mother replied that for some women and all men there was, but that she was not one of these women, and then she explained what was to be expected from an orgasm. I asked her if she was sorry that she didn't get a climax, and she smiled and looked a little woeful and said that yes, she was sorry that she didn't have that experience to add to all the other wonderful experiences she had already had in life.
Q. This is very interesting. Do you think that it is possible that you have felt a little superior to your mother because of having climaxes, but that you also feel guilty about it, and because of the guilt you have contented yourself with a lesbian as a lover instead of a man? You know, in order not to show mother up too badly.
A. Perhaps.
Q. And isn't it also possible that when you were involved with boys that you denied them access to you out of fear of achieving a climax, for if that had happened you would have topped your mother in very definite terms—achieved with a man what she had been unable to achieve?
A. It seems to make sense.
Q. So you cling to the climax more than the subject, I would say. The subject, being a female, is less threatening to you. Yet you are able to continue to feed that part of yourself which seeks to defeat the mother, probably due in your case to the fact that your mother has always been such an astounding success in her profession.
A. I really don't know. This is part of my problem, I'm pretty sure. It's one of the things I have to figure out for myself. That's why I've taken a little break in this love affair—to think things over and get them straight in my mind.
Q. I hope you succeed, Elizabeth.
A. So do I.
Q. If your university counseling service can help, don't hesitate to call upon the people who are available to help you.
A. Thank you. I'll remember that.
CASE HISTORY
Subject: Nineteen-year-old female, college junior, white, case name, Janette; an exceptional female athlete.
Q. You plan to be a physical education teacher, don't you, Janette?
A. Those are my plans at the present time.
Q. It seems like a likely profession for you. I see that you may be a member of the Olympic track team.
A. I hope so.
Q. Do you know just what you volunteered for in this interview?
A. Oh, yes. You want to find out why I'm a lesbian.
Q. No. As a matter of fact, I didn't know you were a lesbian.
A. I'm surprised. Everyone seems to know it. And every time there's an interview concerning sex, I'm usually asked to participate, so I naturally assume that people want to pick me apart and see why I am a lesbian.
Q. No, I'm not interested in picking you apart. I'm only interested in collecting data for this investigation of the general sex life on a college campus.
A. Don't feel bad. I don't care. Pick me apart all you want. I really don't mind a bit.
Q. All right then, we'll do it your way. Let's pick a bit.
A. Yes, let's.
Q. How long have you been a lesbian?
A. Since I was fourteen.
Q. Have you ever had relations with males?
A. Yes. When I was fifteen, I tried boys for several months and I didn't really enjoy them very much.
Q. But you always enjoy girls?
A. Yes.
Q. Any particular girl?
A. Sometimes. But right now, I'm playing the field.
Q. You mean you go out, and have sex, with different girls?
A. Yes. Right now, I like that better than being tied down to a particular girl. Also, I get quite a bang out of making the new freshman girls when they enter school. And believe me, they're not all as shocked by me as you might think.
Q. I think you like to shock people. Is that right?
A. I guess I do. I like to see the expressions on their faces when I say something that really jars them.
Q. Are you an active or passive partner in a lesbian affair?
A. Can't you tell?
Q. No.
A. Well, I'm surprised. I thought it stood out like a sore thumb. I'm active, of course.
Q. Why "of course?"
A. Don't I seem more like a man—an aggressor—than a passive girl?
Q. I think that's irrelevant. Tell me, is your entire life now planned around your lesbianism? I mean, has this had an effect on your career, the things you do, everything?
A. Oh, yes, decidedly so. If I weren't a lesbian, I doubt that I'd be interested in becoming a physical education teacher. But, because I am a lez, there is an inducement for me to enter this field of work.
Q. What is the inducement?
A. The young girls who will be my pupils, of course. And if that seems too candid for you, just remember that a lot of men enter the teaching profession for the same reason—to be around young girls. Young boys, too, for some of the queeries.
Q. I imagine this is true in some cases. And your answers cannot be too candid for me.
A. You don't shock, eh?
Q. No. Now then, you've stated that for roughly five years—since you were fourteen—you've involved yourself with girls as sexual partners. You've said, too, that you did have affairs with boys during your sixteenth year. Tell me, do you have an explanation why females are more appealing to you than males?
A. I feel differently about them. I guess that's the only way to explain it.
Q. Will you go into it a little more deeply, please?
A. It's like this. I'm strong, not really rough, but as strong as a girl can be. It's almost as if I wasn't meant to be a girl at all. I've always been able to beat most boys at physical things. But the girls, the average girl, well, I feel a little sorry for her. She's so weak—kind of needs taking care of. And I like to be that way with girls, look after them, protect them, things like that.
Q. You mean look after them in a fashion that is more often the role of a male?
A. Maybe. And when I make love to them, even when I'm being strong and kind of masterful, I still am gentle, too. And it seems that they're my responsibility—my property, actually.
Q. When you mentioned lovemaking just now, you referred to it as the kind of act that a man would perform with a woman. Do you make love to girls that way?
A. I'm not all oral, if that's what you mean.
Q. How do you make love to your girls?
A. Very much like a man makes love to a woman. I have what I guess you'd call an overly developed clitoris. I—I use it like a man with a girl.
Q. You enter her?
A Sometimes. Sometimes just the contact of my clitoris against hers will be sufficient to give us both a climax.
Q. And this is satisfying to you?
A. The most satisfying thing in the world.
Q. How often do you have affairs?
A. As often as I can. Sometimes it's as if I can't get enough.
Q. And you find all your partners on campus. All the girls with whom you cohabit are students here?
A. Almost exclusively. I did go with a waitress in town for a while, but that didn't last long. There are more girls attracted to other girls on campus than you might think. I've had many girls from the theatre art majors. They seem to gather in force there. Of course, there are more queer boys there, too, and maybe that makes a difference.
Q. Does it bother you to defy convention?
A. Not a bit.
Q. You are not uncomfortable being a lesbian?
A. Not at all. And as far as convention goes, sometimes it seems to me that it would be more unconventional to be straight. As I said before, there are more homos of both sexes on this campus than you could ever imagine.
Q. Assuming that this is true, do you have any opinion as to the reason? I'd truly be interested in your opinion if you have one.
A. Well, I've thought about this a good deal, and I've discussed it with friends, too. Now, in my own case, I really think there is a physical connection between lesbianism and myself. But most of it is emotional, and I think there are a lot of reasons. Competition is one of them, I think. There's a lot of it today. In everything. Sometimes a girl doesn't fit into competition, and because she doesn't, she's made to feel offbeat, so she really becomes off-beat by turning to those things, and they're usually sexual and directed at the love of someone of the same sex. And another reason is the conventions you mentioned. People today get so sick of conventions and being like everyone else that they'll do almost anything to show that they are different. You see, there is a certain phoniness connected with being conventional. We see people being conventional about all the things that show, things they can keep hidden. So when we become queeries, in a way we're being more honest than the dopes who live one kind of life on the outside and another on the inside. At least our lesbianism shows all the time—for most of us it does, anyway.
Q. Do you ever entertain any ideas about not living a lesbian-oriented life?
A. Not anymore.
Q. You did once?
A. Oh, yes. At the beginning and for quite a few years after it started I used to remonstrate with myself. I'd tell myself all the things that I was giving up. Things like married life, a family, children, things like that. But then I stopped fighting the thoughts that it was bad and disgusting, and now I don't have this conflict within me anymore.
Q. Have you considered psychoanalysis as a method of resolving your problem?
A. It's not a problem for me.
Q. It's against the law.
A. So is almost everything.
Q. Then you've never considered entering treatment for the purpose of putting this problem to rest, if not solving it completely?
A. No, you see, it's too late for me.
Q. At nineteen, it's too late?
A. Yes. I'm hooked. I just can't see myself as the happy little female being led by the hand by the big, strong male. I can't see myself wiping little kids' noses or giving birth or fixing dinner for a husband or doing any of these things that so many young chicks think are so divine. It's just not for me. I'm hooked on the girls, and I don't have any intention of changing. I couldn't even if I wanted to.
Q. Analysis wouldn't necessarily stop you from being a lesbian. It might do nothing more than make you more comfortable with your way of life.
A. I'm comfortable enough.
Q. I wonder if you really are.
A. I am. You can be sure of it.
Q. Well, should you ever change your ...
A. Change my mind? Don't worry, I won't.